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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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Arctic
.275 member


Reged: 01/04/04
Posts: 87
Loc: Arctic Canada
Robert Lees
      #57003 - 12/05/06 02:25 PM

Has anyone heard of Rob't Lees, George St., Perth?

Picked up an Alex Henry with this name on the action and barrel.

~Arctic~

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"A stranger is a friend we haven't met!"

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400NitroExpress
.400 member


Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State
Re: Robert Lees [Re: Arctic]
      #57012 - 12/05/06 06:27 PM

Lees & Son, 63 George St. Perth, c. 1874; Robert Lees, 63 George St., Perth, c. 1878-c.1897.

That's all I can find. A. Henry, eh? This a BPE, or Nitro? What period are the proof marks? Hammergun?

Can't imagine Lees to be a trade maker. Not a barrel filer either - those guys didn't sign their work that way. Could be the gun was sold through Lees, but Perth isn't far enough from Edinburgh for that to seem necessary. Has the gun be re-barreled?
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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Arctic
.275 member


Reged: 01/04/04
Posts: 87
Loc: Arctic Canada
Re: Robert Lees [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #57055 - 13/05/06 06:21 AM

It's an Alex Henry left-hammered falling block in .450X3 1/4, 52 guage. From all indications, Serial, Barrel, and action numbers, plus proofs, it would run 1868 to 1874, but the serial may not be Alex Henry's due to "Robt. Lees" both on the barrel and the side of the action. "Alex Henrys patent14--" is under the forearm on the barrel. Front of the action is stamped "52". Which "Perth" is Lees attributed to, as there are several spread around the world? ~Arctic~

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Robert Lees [Re: Arctic]
      #57056 - 13/05/06 06:34 AM

Which "Perth" is Lees attributed to, as there are several spread around the
world? ~Arctic~


Scotland

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400NitroExpress
.400 member


Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State
Re: Robert Lees [Re: Arctic]
      #57060 - 13/05/06 07:22 AM

I misunderstood you completely. I understood you to mean that the gun was Alex Henry branded. So, it sounds like it's a falling block single shot of the Henry pattern, but the MAKER'S name on the action and barrel is that of Robert Lees, with the Henry patent use information stamped under the barrel. Is this right? If so, that is a different picture.

I've never seen a gun of any kind from Robert Lees, but there were many small gunmakers in Scotland in those days. Lees could have built it from an action they bought in, or they could have retailed it only. Aside from the patent use number, are there any other numbers on the gun that don't match the serial number? The patent use information doesn't mean that Henry had anything to do with this gun.

Yes, Perth, Scotland. I alluded to that in my first post, but didn't make it clear.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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AkMike
.416 member


Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: Robert Lees [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #57061 - 13/05/06 07:28 AM

Does it look like this one? http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-weapons/alex-henry.htm


I have a 450 BPE Alex Henry but it's a right hand hammergun. I believe that all the lefties were made by others using that patent. I recall that there were 4 other makers.
I'd think that Pert would be the one in Ozzieland.

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"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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400NitroExpress
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Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State
Re: Robert Lees [Re: AkMike]
      #57063 - 13/05/06 07:46 AM

Mike:

No, Robert Lees, 63 George St, Perth is listed in Perth, Scotland, not Perth, Australia.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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AkMike
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Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: Robert Lees [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #57089 - 13/05/06 04:48 PM

Ok wrong Perth..
So does the rifle in the link look right? I do know that the RH hammer guns were the only ones made by Alex Henry.

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"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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Arctic
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Reged: 01/04/04
Posts: 87
Loc: Arctic Canada
Re: Robert Lees [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #57090 - 13/05/06 06:18 PM

400,

Perth, Scotland, is what I needed to know, as many A.H.s ended up in Australia, and if on the wrong track, I'd be barking at the moon!

I did err above, the action number is 55, so we have a serial number, action number, and barrel number, all of which fit into the 1868 to 1874 range. Everything indicates Alex Henry manufacture. I'm guessing at this point that Lees obtained either the barrelled action or the stocked firearm from Henry and than finished it or marketed it with his trade name. The early dating is prior to Henry putting out any large quantity of these and appears to be one of the earliest yet found. The stockwork and checking patern matches other left-hammer Henrys I have.

Another of interest I have, a basic right-hammer, no embellishments, is a "sealer" rifle, with boat's intials on the stock and stamped into the barrel and action, ........no beauty, it's seen better days, but is interesting!

~Arctic~

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"A stranger is a friend we haven't met!"

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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3516
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Robert Lees [Re: AkMike]
      #57134 - 14/05/06 02:56 PM

AKMike:
In reply to:

I do know that the RH hammer guns were the only ones made by Alex Henry


How do you know this? I have seen a number of left-hand hammer Henry falling-block rifles, in fact my friend Kurt M_ has one which I had the privilege of examining again last Thursday evening. I am quite surprised at the notion that Alex Henry would 'buy in' left-hand hammer rifles to sell under his own name! Do I need to re-read Wal Winfer's Volume 1 again?

....or do you?!


BTW Arctic, Wally included a short section on the Sealing Rifles in his book (page 91) where he concludes that "given the hazards of their duty, combined with the salt-laden air, we can expect that precious few sealing rifles will have survived"

I suspect 'precious' might be the operative word. You have a rare gem by the sound of it, to be cherished for what it is, despite its having 'seen better days'!

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Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
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www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

Edited by Marrakai (14/05/06 03:17 PM)

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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3516
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Robert Lees [Re: Marrakai]
      #57136 - 14/05/06 03:25 PM

OK, found it. (Thought I'd better check...!)

Henry swapped his hammer to the left-hand side after criticism from the Military Select Committee, a body formed to adopt the new British service rifle, that the hammer could get in the way of loading the cartridge for a right-handed man. Henry then continued manufacturing left-hand hammer rifles for some time after that, even for commercial sporting purposes, however he switched back sometime later as the right-hand hammer was deemed to be in 'a more natural position'. See Winfer, Vol.1, pp 76-77.

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Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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AkMike
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Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: Robert Lees [Re: Marrakai]
      #57137 - 14/05/06 04:08 PM

I'll go thru that again. Sorry I thought I recalled that they all were RH hammers like mine and the military ones were LH and made by 4 other firms..


I should have reread that before I made a statement like that. Sorry!


--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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Arctic
.275 member


Reged: 01/04/04
Posts: 87
Loc: Arctic Canada
Re: Robert Lees [Re: AkMike]
      #57143 - 14/05/06 06:32 PM

Marrakai, I agree with you, ........in fact, the Sealer is the only right-hammer I have! Anyone with any interest in the single shots should all five of the books and memorize them.

Since we're on the topic of the books, do you recall the Winchester 1885 in .577 shown, .....that's also mine, and another rare find. A couple of my Farquharsons are also shown.

~Arctic~

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"A stranger is a friend we haven't met!"

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