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Levallois
.300 member


Reged: 27/11/03
Posts: 137
Loc: Arizona, USA
318 WR, 318 Rigby, 318 Nitro Express - the same?
      #13910 - 24/04/04 05:38 AM

If so, what other 318 calibers are there that were used in pre-WW2 British built rifles? Which would have used 37 gr Cordite and a 250 grain bullet? Thanks!

John

--------------------
It ain't like it used to be, but it'll do.

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ALF
.275 member


Reged: 21/11/03
Posts: 51
Loc: Out of Africa
Re: 318 WR, 318 Rigby, 318 Nitro Express - the same? [Re: Levallois]
      #14071 - 28/04/04 12:24 PM

The 318 WR aka 318 Rimless Nitro Express aka 318 Westley Richards accelerated Express is not a 318 caliber at all but a .330 caliber. (8.38mm)

There was one other cartridge of similar bore diameter and that is the .333 jeffery.

In very remote pre modern history there are a few BP cartridges from Germany that came close in bullet diameter in the form of 8.35 mm caliber.

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Levallois
.300 member


Reged: 27/11/03
Posts: 137
Loc: Arizona, USA
Re: 318 WR, 318 Rigby, 318 Nitro Express - the same? [Re: ALF]
      #14091 - 29/04/04 01:11 AM

Alf,

I appreciate the reply. I guess my question is that if you have a British commercial rifle made circa pre-WW2 with ".318" engraved on it, would this be the 318 WR, etc. or could it be another cartridge?
Thanks.

John

--------------------
It ain't like it used to be, but it'll do.

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ALF
.275 member


Reged: 21/11/03
Posts: 51
Loc: Out of Africa
Re: 318 WR, 318 Rigby, 318 Nitro Express - the same? [Re: Levallois]
      #14102 - 29/04/04 08:16 AM

If it says 318 then it could only be a 318 WR.
But if it is pre WW1 then we must consider that the 318 was released around 1910.

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470Rigby
.333 member


Reged: 23/02/04
Posts: 328
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Re: 318 WR, 318 Rigby, 318 Nitro Express - the same? [Re: ALF]
      #14125 - 29/04/04 11:17 PM

There seems to be some divergence of opinion on the true bore size of the Westley Richards.318 Accelerated Express, viz;

John Taylor (African Rifles & Cartridges)- .327"

Burrard (Notes on Sporting Rifles) - .327"

Frank Barnes (COTW) - .330"

Bill Fleming (British Sporting Rifle Cartridges) - .329-.330"

George Hoyem - .330"

Woodleigh Bullets - made at .330"

Hawk Bullets - make .329" AND .330" (presumably for 318WR?)

Has anyone slugged a reasonably new bore?

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ALF
.275 member


Reged: 21/11/03
Posts: 51
Loc: Out of Africa
Re: 318 WR, 318 Rigby, 318 Nitro Express - the same? [Re: 470Rigby]
      #14128 - 29/04/04 11:53 PM

470

Your observations are indeed correct and this stems from the way bore is designated.

The Groove diameter of the 318 is .330 inches ( I have one) but bore is traditionally and correctly measeured between the lands so the .327 plus and minus quoted by some is therefore the "correct" bore diameter.

Bullet makers use the .330 measurement to make the bullets and in the past I have used both the now obsolete Goodnel bullets (.330) and Ken Stewart bullets also .330 in my 318.

Incidently I have been "hunting down" 318's in the RSA and this past December I located no less than 4 specimens all with badly oroded throats and barrels. The mercury containing primers of yesteryear sure put many a rifle out of comission.

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Levallois
.300 member


Reged: 27/11/03
Posts: 137
Loc: Arizona, USA
Re: 318 WR, 318 Rigby, 318 Nitro Express - the same? [Re: ALF]
      #14130 - 30/04/04 12:14 AM

Wasn't the 318 WR considered the perfect all-around caliber for non-dangerous game at one time? I thought I remember reading somewhere that it was the best combination of knockdown power and recoil?

John

--------------------
It ain't like it used to be, but it'll do.

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Levallois
.300 member


Reged: 27/11/03
Posts: 137
Loc: Arizona, USA
Re: 318 WR, 318 Rigby, 318 Nitro Express - the same? [Re: Levallois]
      #15269 - 28/05/04 12:51 AM

Well, you folks convinced me to buy a George Gibbs sporting rifle in 318. It isn't a double but it's pretty nontheless. Please follow this links to photos of the rifle:

Gibbs photos


Thanks!

John

--------------------
It ain't like it used to be, but it'll do.

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mickey
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Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: 318 WR, 318 Rigby, 318 Nitro Express - the same? [Re: Levallois]
      #15278 - 28/05/04 05:40 AM

Very cool, for a bolt rifle. Now you have to complete your Brit Bolt Gun Battery.

Mine, so far is a 275HV Rigby, a 300 H&H, a .375 H&H and a 404 Jeffery. Still need a .505 Gibbs.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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BFaucett
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Reged: 13/01/04
Posts: 449
Loc: Houston, Texas
Re: 318 WR, 318 Rigby, 318 Nitro Express - the sam [Re: Levallois]
      #15279 - 28/05/04 05:45 AM

Very nice! I've always wanted a .318 WR. But, I had to settle for the poor man's .318 which is the .338-06. Basically the same performance but not nearly the same amount of class! Take that .318 to Africa!

Be sure to check out http://www.kynochammunition.co.uk/




Also, Nickkudu (from A/R) posted a nice article about the .318 W-R. Here's the link to it:
Author Gregor Woods/318 WR

And another article about .33 calibers (.333 Jeffery, .318 W-R, .338-06, .338 Sabi):
Author Gregor Woods/Think 33 Caliber



-Bob F.

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Levallois
.300 member


Reged: 27/11/03
Posts: 137
Loc: Arizona, USA
Re: 318 WR, 318 Rigby, 318 Nitro Express - the sam [Re: BFaucett]
      #15289 - 28/05/04 03:18 PM

Mick,
Quite a collection of bolt rifles - rob banks for a living per chance?

Bob F.
Thanks for the links - great articles!

I was lucky to get the Gibbs - it might be a while before I will be able to afford another. One of these days it will be a double.

John




--------------------
It ain't like it used to be, but it'll do.

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: 318 WR, 318 Rigby, 318 Nitro Express - the sam [Re: Levallois]
      #15290 - 28/05/04 04:09 PM

In reply to:

Mick,
Quite a collection of bolt rifles - rob banks for a living per chance?



I never thought about it being a lot. A lot of my friends have many more. One friend actually left $500,000 worth of Doubles and British Bolts to SCI and $100,000 annuity to take care of them. He got pissed about the actions of the leadership and the direction they decided to take and withdrew it and redirected it to the Smithsonian.

You would be surprised how little you will need to pay if you look around a bit. For instance, I have recently purchased two 275 Rigby HV in good and excellent shape for $1700 and $1300. That is the same as a Ruger Safari Grade but either will bring $4000 or more if sold.

A friend, through a series of trades ended up with a 375 Holland for around $3200 invested, half of what it could sell for. Another traded up to a $8500 Brit Double with probably less than half actually invested. You just need to keep your eyes and ears open and your fingers crossed.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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Levallois
.300 member


Reged: 27/11/03
Posts: 137
Loc: Arizona, USA
Re: 318 WR, 318 Rigby, 318 Nitro Express - the sam [Re: mickey]
      #15322 - 30/05/04 02:16 AM

Mick,

I'm hardly ever that lucky. The deals you mentioned are indeed great deals - I find that in this neck of the woods anyone with a bolt rifle made by Rigby, Holland & Holland, Westley Richards, etc. wants two arms and a leg for them. Actually any British made pre-WW2 rifle commands a premium.
I've had a few trade deals fall through for one reason or another, but I'm always looking. I should catch up to you in a decade or two.

John

--------------------
It ain't like it used to be, but it'll do.

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