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mehulkamdar
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Immaculate 4 bore on sale in the UK
      #64388 - 21/10/06 11:07 PM

Just founsd this link to this beautiful 4 bore "elephant gun" posted by a British member of the Indianns For Guns forum. The gentleman is a member here as well and I shall request him to post more details about this gun as he knows a consideraable amount about it.

Cheers!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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empirevr
.375 member


Reged: 03/09/06
Posts: 614
Loc: England,but now Italy.
Re: Immaculate 4 bore on sale in the UK [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #64411 - 22/10/06 09:02 AM

Hi Mehul

Already posted it on the forums before,as i also noticed it.........

Its a very handsome piece indeed.

All the best

Ben

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gatsby
.375 member


Reged: 05/09/05
Posts: 862
Loc: inland valley CA USA
Re: Immaculate 4 bore on sale in the UK [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #64412 - 22/10/06 09:49 AM

But is this an elephant gun? Many of the large bore shotguns had sights as they were made for market gunners and they were heavy. If there is no "ledgerpage" how does one know?

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar



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jaz
.300 member


Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 188
Loc: Northeast US
Re: Immaculate 4 bore on sale in the UK [Re: gatsby]
      #64454 - 23/10/06 04:45 AM

30" barrels??? Most unlikely this is an elephant gun as most had 24 - 26" If the gun weighs in the 16-17 pound class, maybe. But the seller speaks of "inferior quality on waterfowl guns" sounds like a crack smoker to me. Probably just as Gatsby said, as the waterfowl guns were shot to 80 yards.

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Immaculate 4 bore on sale in the UK [Re: jaz]
      #64459 - 23/10/06 06:49 AM


I agree, something isn't qite correct in the description. I would have thought a comment on the rifling and bores would have been appropriate.

I will try to get a photo of my mates 4 Bore but from memory I think it is a Toplever Hammerless.

Mehul Kamdar
Do you think we could keep titles of posts more accurate and
use the word "immaculate" when it is actually showing something that is actually "immaculate" - as much as the Tolley is a fine piece it is far from the above word.

500 Nitro

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Immaculate 4 bore on sale in the UK [Re: gatsby]
      #64461 - 23/10/06 06:54 AM

I have a J&WTolley catalog that covers the fowl guns as well as the big bore rifles. Has the Ubique ball and shot guns as well.

Pictured in the catalog are large bore SxS fowl guns with two-leaf flip sights for long-range accuracy

I really doubt a 4-bore rifle would wear 30'' barrels
A rear sight on a 30'' 4-bore SxS fowl gun doesn't surprise me at all.



--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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mehulkamdar
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: Immaculate 4 bore on sale in the UK [Re: 500Nitro]
      #64478 - 23/10/06 11:47 AM

500 Nitro

I know that you have access to the most immaculate of 4 bore guns and that you are the ultimate arbiter of good taste and condition in firearms. I defer to your description, O Venerable! And sobbing beside my gunrack, my awful sins I shall confess.....


--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Immaculate 4 bore on sale in the UK [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #64479 - 23/10/06 12:16 PM


mehulkamdar

I just don't call a piece of coal a diamond when it is clearly not.

Bad descriptions or missing pieces from the description and
over embelishment should be left to gun dealers.

An example of "immaculate" is on the DR archive
like mickey's 369 Purdey.

500 Nitro

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
The price for your words [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #64486 - 23/10/06 01:38 PM

Your punishment if you wish to accept it Mehul will be to endure a day in the cold confines of my machine shop turning brass and casting roundball for my light 16b SxS rifles, hunting feral coastal pigs with them, and then minding the fireplace in my drafty Victorian as you're subjected to the hot wind of tall tales and dry humor well past visitors' hours.

Might seem harsh, but we poor folks have a way with things out here in the west and you should buck up and take what's coming to you...


--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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Grizzly
.333 member


Reged: 05/12/05
Posts: 359
Loc: Dallas, Texas, USA
Re: The price for your words [Re: tinker]
      #64627 - 25/10/06 01:52 PM

Woe unto you, Mehul, for the commission of such a dire transgression against the eyes of the 4 bore gods!

Few of us mortals have been granted the divine privilege to see a 4 bore. I would dare say that more members here have seen the Loch Ness Monster than cast eyes upon an old English 4 bore. There is a reason for that - unless favored by the creator of the double rifle universe to cast eyes upon a 4 bore without being blinded, most of us are not worth to even cast an eye upon such an idol. IF one is not worthy to be graced with the honor of viewing a physical specimen, it is folly for one to have the temerity, the unmitigated gall, to venture to opine on something far beyond his worldly grasp.

It is written that those whose eyes casteth not upon the 4 bore are banned from even speaking her name.

Toiling in a shop is much too lenient a punishment for transgressing upon the realm of the double rifle titans.

Your punishment shall be to shoot the beast with a 16 dram load! So let it be written, so let it be done.

So 500's wrath doeth not runneth over, it would be highly advisable to build a hasty altar upon which you should immediately sacrifice 100 chickens, 50 goats and 10 angus cattle - or in australian scarificial dollars, that would be 200 koalas (they taste like chicken), 100 wombat and 50 kangaroo.

Now man! Before it's too late!

--------------------
SCI Life Member
DSC Life Member
DRSS Member

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DoubleD
.400 member


Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2416
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma
Re: The price for your words [Re: Grizzly]
      #64629 - 25/10/06 02:08 PM

Grizz, you've been reading H Rider Haggard again haven't you?

--------------------
DD, Ret.

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39443
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: The price for your words [Re: Grizzly]
      #64630 - 25/10/06 02:08 PM

I understand the penance for such titile transgressions is having to eat a large jar of vegemite with your fingers without bread .........

Rule 303 part (c)



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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mehulkamdar
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: The price for your words [Re: tinker]
      #64634 - 25/10/06 02:22 PM

Tinker,

What you have decreed, may it happen!

Grizzly,

I have no problem sacrificing the animals as long as I can play chef and come up with a good dinner for th fine gemtlemen on the forum. I would also make mixing cocktails a part of my penance.

Ben,

My apologies. I didn't see your post. Just thought that the gentlemen here would be happy to see this fine piece - I am happy to think the same way that you do, my friend!

John,

Vegemite! That is punishment indeed! For an avowed carnivore, anything vegetarian is horrible punishment. What have I done to deserve this terrible plight?

Cheers, gentlemen,






--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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Grizzly
.333 member


Reged: 05/12/05
Posts: 359
Loc: Dallas, Texas, USA
Re: The price for your words [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #64686 - 26/10/06 03:47 PM

John - that will give me nightmares. The horror, the horror...

Mehul, I can only imagine what is going through your mind. As I see it, you can beg for mercy, plead insanity, or go the way of the samauri and disembowel yourself (in which case the vegimite will bypass your digestive tract).



--------------------
SCI Life Member
DSC Life Member
DRSS Member

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: The price for your words [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #64709 - 27/10/06 12:09 AM

Mehul-

It sounds like you need to arrange your caravan and pull your stakes.
Time for a journey to the West.

As you may have noted, I've recently appointed myself Colonel of DRSS.
Our meetings here will be my first Summit of foriegn powers (Chicago is relatively foriegn to we Oaklanders...) !

--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: The price for your words [Re: tinker]
      #64716 - 27/10/06 02:18 AM

In reply to:

As you may have noted, I've recently appointed myself Colonel of DRSS.
Our meetings here will be my first Summit of foriegn powers (Chicago is relatively foriegn to we Oaklanders...) !

--Tinker



California is Foreign to most of the rest of us.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
On Being Native in a Foreign land... [Re: mickey]
      #64720 - 27/10/06 03:17 AM

Mick-

As an actual native of this state, native to the SF Bay Area to boot, I have a unique perspective on this place and it's distinction in the sense of being foriegn to The States.

Most everyone here is from somewhere else. Lots of folks from other places within The States. Seems most of those folks from around wherever they came from came here to get away from whatever it was at home that they needed to get away from -- family, community, economy, religion...
And they vote. They typically don't think about much besides what they'd want to have voted against back home if they though they could get away with it or vote to see how far they can push things -- often seems to me that they get here and don't bother to settle in and glass the land, rather they come into the place with a sense of creating something new (whatever that'd be for them)
Sounds great for a lot of people, and in principle it seems like a great thing. The problems come up when it comes time to put the effect to the political landscape and you see such complete bullshit results as the overall state of gun control or what's happened to our public school system...

Most of the native-to-this-state folks I know are anything but what comes to most minds around the thought of 'the typical Californian'



And Mick, have faith I'll do all I can do out here in Oakland to keep the good word of the DRSS in order.
Come on out for a safari some time, we have Cougars, Jaguars and Impalas, Vipers and Cobras...Running wild in the streets!



--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39443
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: The price for your words [Re: tinker]
      #64722 - 27/10/06 03:26 AM



Tinker

That is a great photo you have there.


--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: The price for your words [Re: NitroX]
      #64724 - 27/10/06 03:54 AM

Thanks NitroX-

I finally took at a peek into my personal settings on the site here and added something for a sig line. Saw (I think Dugaboy) someone over on AR note that all it takes to be DRSS proper was to say so.
I did it with distinction, and backed it up with J&W Tolley iron.
Somewhat fitting that I'd do it in the spirit of a wrangle over the application of grading language on a Tolley bore gun.

That's my immaculate
uh, er...
That's my saved-from-the-grave Tolley having finally gotten itself together, tuned and running well with a regulation load that I trust and can hunt anything here in my little North-American life.

Might just have to subject Mehul to it's patinated appointments when he and his caravan arrive here in-country.

So, you think he'll chose elephant or station wagon for his personal mode of transportation...?

--Tinker



--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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mehulkamdar
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: The price for your words [Re: tinker]
      #64994 - 01/11/06 04:09 AM

Tinker,

Thank you for the very cordial invitation. Yes, we'll have a get together in California. I am planning to drive there next year on Route 62 and we should get some shooting. I have a very good friend in Arizona who is a gunsmith and restorer who would join us with his wife - the lady is an accomplished big game hunter herself and I shall perform my penance cooking and mixing cocktails. Hopefully, Oldsarge could join as well along with other august members of the DRSS.

No elephant, Indian style, unfortunately - we'll have to make do with my Ford. We'll plan it and have a very good time.

Cheers, my friend,

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: The price for your words [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #65052 - 02/11/06 02:11 AM

Mehul-

I think you should follow my lead here and self-appoint as the Raj of DRSS!!
We have a zoo here in Oakland, if you make it through this part of the state first, and we have a Northern Territory annointment with your exotic cocktails, then head out to the zoo --
We'd have a caravan of elephant in no time.

Then a trip down to the southern end of the state could be done in the upmost of style!
As there is little risk of wildcat attack while en route, we can collect some beautiful women in vibrant colored outfits to accompany us in the Howdas on the way. We'll be able to afford the distraction while on the trail.



--Tinker



--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
waterbird guns, long range, and flip sights... [Re: jaz]
      #65332 - 05/11/06 12:26 PM



--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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gatsby
.375 member


Reged: 05/09/05
Posts: 862
Loc: inland valley CA USA
Re: waterbird guns, long range, and flip sights... [Re: tinker]
      #65338 - 05/11/06 01:45 PM

Thanks for the catalougue page. As to the above referenced "elephant" gun, we know early 4's and 8's, round ball guns, were smooth bore. How are we to know in absence of the manufacturers notes what the intended purposes were for a given gun? Are we to use solely the guns configuration in our determination or would we have to say possibly used for...? And given the proximity that the shots were taken on large DG with a 4 bore was rifling necessary?

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar



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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: waterbird guns, long range, and flip sights... [Re: gatsby]
      #65342 - 05/11/06 02:06 PM

As the Tolley boys were proponents of choke-boring, we might get a better glimpse of what this particuar 4-bore SxS was intended for via an examination of the bores up to and at the muzzles.
Typically, when we see choke-bored tubes, we see the 'not for ball' note or proof stamp, from all around the world too.

My bore rifles are both 16b light SxS rifles, almost certianly meant for light-skinned and/or smaller sized game -- definitely not for big dangerous game use. They both have flip sights and they both have fully rifled bores, both of them shoot roundball quite well.

Click on my avitar photo, you should be able to get it to upsize pretty easily. The pair of holes down on the lower left corner of that target are it's first breaths in likely over a hundred years, shot at fifty yards.
The rifling doesn't seem to do any harm!


--Tinker


--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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