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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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Ash
.400 member


Reged: 10/05/11
Posts: 1653
Loc: Australia
Colt Lightning .50-95?
      #214007 - 03/08/12 04:05 PM

Hey guys, couple quick questions!

1. What were these rifles made/designed for in this caliber? What was there intended use against?

2. Numbers made?

3. How much they go for? (from what I've seen on auction estimates between $7000-20000)

4. Anyone here own or use one? What are they like?

Cheers, just curious about these since discovering their existence the other week.

--------------------
.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26631
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Colt Lightning .50-95? [Re: Ash]
      #214026 - 04/08/12 12:33 AM

As to numbers etc, I have no information but know a bit about the round itself.

The .50/95, originally a Winchester round for the model 1876 lever action rifle, was a slightly bottlenecked round which used a very short light weight bullet, ie: 300gr. at around 1,500 to 1,600fps. The rifling twists were very slow as in retro for that period - ie: round ball twists, of around 56" to 60". Thus the ctg. could not shoot a heavier longer bullet due to overall length restrictions, let alone bullet tumbling from the slow rifling twist.

Indeed, accuracy of the short bullets was considered very poor at the time (by said buffalo hunters) - something worse than 9" at 200yards and that was the .45/90 Winchester round, a more modern round than the .50/95.

Due to the light weight bullet, penetration on heavy game (buffalo or grizzly) was poor and straight line penetration horrid as the bullet turned after hitting the game, not following a straight line due to the instability of the bullet after impact. They probably worked splendidly on deer or black bears at short ranges, both easy to kill and lightly boned.

The Winchester rounds were the laugh of the American plains buffalo hunters, who distained the Winchester's poor killing power, from the .44's, .45's through the longer .50 cal. ctgs., all lever guns shooting light-for-calibre bullets. They had the FPE, but lacked enough "bullet" mass or sectional density to do the job on heavy game, thus they would work on deer or black bear or Indians, but were not very good on anything larger.

The later and larger cased 50/110 shared the .50/95's light bullet/slow twist rate and thus poor performance on heavy game due to the slow twists used. Modern made barrels chambered for either of these rounds do well with 24" or even faster twists and become the big game rounds they never were back then.

What twist is in a Colt LIghtening, I don't know? You'll have to measure one, I guess. Collectors of those pieces would probably never think of measuring one, let alone shooting it.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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taw1126
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Reged: 24/07/07
Posts: 290
Loc: Texas
Re: Colt Lightning .50-95? [Re: DarylS]
      #214064 - 05/08/12 03:05 AM

Many many years of Winchester collecting but I don't remember hearing of that round's intended use on buffalo. Teddy Roosevelt had some unkind things to say about it (preferring the original .45-75 WCF chambering in his 1876) and at any rate the .50-95 was not popular in the US.

The places typically associated with the .50-95 WCF are India and Africa. The large diameter "express" cartridge was supposed to be popular for hunting big cats, and some of the Bond Street gunsmiths, including Holland & Holland, upgraded Winchester 1876's to be sold in their shops. It's not always possible to determine a shipping destination for original Winchesters, but I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of .50-95's made by Winchester were exported.

You can buy reproduction 1876's, and possibly Lightnings, in this caliber. Mike Venturino and others have published black powder and smokeless load data.

In addition to the .50-110 (aka 50 Express) Winchester loaded the .50-100-450 with a heavier bullet & different twist barrel.

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taw1126
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Reged: 24/07/07
Posts: 290
Loc: Texas
Re: Colt Lightning .50-95? [Re: taw1126]
      #214065 - 05/08/12 03:10 AM

That post looks a little unclear o the different 50's Winchester made, so maybe this will help:

.50-95 was a short cartridge (case is ~1.76 inches) made for the toggle-link Winchester 1876
.50-110 was a longer cartridge (case ~2.4 inches) made for the Browning designed 1886
.50-100-450 was same case as the .50-110 but with a heavier bullet
Case used for the .50-110/.50-100-450 was later bottlenecked and became the .348 WCF used in the Model 71

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greenshoots
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Reged: 23/05/08
Posts: 204
Loc: uk
Re: Colt Lightning .50-95? [Re: taw1126]
      #214067 - 05/08/12 03:27 AM

50-110/.50-100-450 was later bottlenecked and became the .348 WCF

Teddy Roosevelt had some unkind things to say about it (preferring the original .45-75 WCF chambering in his 1876)

interesting i make 45/75 out of .348wcf lol

greenshoots

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