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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles

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crkennedy1
.375 member


Reged: 05/12/08
Posts: 501
Loc: Utah
375 WIN Lever Action
      #152225 - 30/01/10 02:11 PM

I am looking at picking up a pristine 375 Winchester lever action (Model 94). How is this caliber in comparison to other "big bores"? What other calibers does it most closely campare to? What African animals can be taken with it? I am interested in your recommendations and thoughts - thanks! Christopher

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26677
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 375 WIN Lever Action [Re: crkennedy1]
      #152236 - 30/01/10 03:10 PM

Mine hasn't been to Africa- never will. The .375 Winchester is a slightly overpowered .38/55. In fact, I use .38/55 dies with both .375 and blown out .30/30 brass. I prefer .32 SPL brass as it's a tich longer than .30/30 once blown out.

I've shot 2 moose with mine, when it was my wife's rifle, but haven't used it since I received it 'back' as a birthday present.
I've loaded mostly 220gr. Hornady's up to 2,200fps, but shot the moose with a load of 42.0gr. H335 with the 220gr. The muzzle velocity was low, at 1,940fps.

The first moose, a big dry cow, was 95 yards away, standing with a tree covering her lung cavity, so I shot her through the onside shoulder. She tried to take off running and dropped dead in 1 1/2 steps. The bullet holed blades and both lungs, to stop beautifully mushroomed against the hide on the off side. Perfect performance - weighed 210gr. recorved. I still have it, somewhere.

My binocs were in truck - too bad. The second moose was about 110yards and a 3 year old bull on which the second shot, at about 75 yards, 220gr. Hornady, angled into the lungs from rear quarter at the last rib. The bullet went through the liver clipped the onside lung and holed the offside lung, centred a rib and stopped against the hide on the offside. He dropped dead after 4 slow steps. I also have that bullet, somewhere. Seems to me it lost more weight - down to something like 190gr. or maybe my mind has the two bullets mixed up.

The first shot on that moose was a 270gr. Hornady RN, with the nose filed off at the jacket. It was a rear shot, unfortunately. It merely smashed his left hip. He went down at the shot like he was polaxed and just as I was about to congratulate myself on a perfect chest shot, he jumped back up and took off with the cow. Later, when butchering him, we could not find any hole in the paunch, but sometimes with fat, a small hole is hard to find, nor was it in the leg. If the rifle had been scoped, or I had my binocs, I'd have seen the moose was standing with it's butt to me, and looking back over top of it's left shoulder, not facing me as it appeared. Oh well, the moose was not lost, but I had to track it for about 1/2 mile. He lay down within 50 yards of where he was first shot, but the cow kept getting him up & moving him off. Otherwise, he'd never have gotten back up. Moose are babies. We had waited about 1 hour before taking up their tracks & finding his first bed. About 5 or 6 beds later, we found him, separated from the cow and limping away on 3 legs.

Like many rounds, this one is not for shooting at the south end of a north bound moose.

I am impressed with this ctg.'s ability to drp moose with good hits and it's accuracy helps. It runs that H335 load into 1 1/2", 5 shot groups at 100 meters off the bags. Not bad for a 1978 M94. I filed the rear sight to a wide shallow "V" and installed an ivory bead for the front sight - wonderful change for the bush and very accurate on target as well. It is the XTR, top eject and has a lovely stock with a very bright finish, and is checkered.

I've experimented with 270gr. Hornady RN's, the nose cut off at the jacket running 1,750fps, as well as 300gr. Hornady RN's at 1,560fps. Both were accurate, but too tough for moose, I think, although the only 270 I shot into moose, stopped after smashing a 5" diameter bone - guess that's to be expected for such a low velocity round.

It's not for sale, sorry. A handy, powerful gun and a favourite to just grab for protection for a walk in the bush close to home. At 6 pounds loaded with 6, it's a peach.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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crkennedy1
.375 member


Reged: 05/12/08
Posts: 501
Loc: Utah
Re: 375 WIN Lever Action [Re: DarylS]
      #152242 - 30/01/10 04:59 PM

Thanks Daryl,

It certainly sounds like the 375 WIN can take down one of North America's largest mamals. Thanks for sharing the play-by-play on Mr. & Mrs. Bull Winkle - great stuff! When one goes to hunt dangerous game in Africa, they say that the minimum cal is 375 (which most of us know to be 375 H&H). I'm wondering if that also includes the 375 WIN?

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Paul
.400 member


Reged: 28/08/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Re: 375 WIN Lever Action [Re: crkennedy1]
      #152251 - 30/01/10 06:44 PM

CR, you might get away legally with the 'Big-Bore' somewhere, but that may not make the Africa project a good idea. I suppose the 375 Win might be OK for leopards but I wouldn't want to try it on buffalo or elephant.

I've had one of these rifles almost as long as Daryl but it only gets taken after pigs - and sambar when my boys grab the 338 and .30/06. It is considered a marginal proposition for sambar though the guy who sold it to me said he'd shot a hind at 200 metres with it.

It's a nice little rifle but selling back into America would hardly make sense.

I've bought some Reloader 7 powder and hope to cobble up some 250-grain-or-heavier ammo for the big deer and would appreciate hints on the best bullet or load.

I think its replacement, the 356 Win, is more powerful. How the later, side-eject 94 action handles a cartridge almost a rimmed equivalent of the 358 Win is something I'd like to hear explained, however.

Cheers
- Paul


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crkennedy1
.375 member


Reged: 05/12/08
Posts: 501
Loc: Utah
Re: 375 WIN Lever Action [Re: Paul]
      #152276 - 31/01/10 01:55 AM

I'm not too familiar with the ballistics of the 356 or 358 Win, but I do own a 375 H&H (bolt action) and a 45-70 double. In fact, I had a 458 Lott in Ruger #1, but sold it. So I am familiar with big bores (though the 45-70 may be a bit light). It's just the 375 Win really looks compact, but from what I'm hearing it sounds to be more like a 338 Win mag or even the 300 win mag in performance. Just not large enough for a clean ethical kill on something like a cape buff.
What is so attractive about this gun is that it's a lever action, so it can hold several shells, it's quite accurate and has quick follow-up, second only to a semi-auto. A lot of pluses in my book.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26677
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 375 WIN Lever Action [Re: crkennedy1]
      #152282 - 31/01/10 03:56 AM

nononono - not even remotely close to a .338. I would liken it's killing abilities to being very similar if not identical to a 20" barreled .356 or .358 Win.
Both will shoot a 250gr. bullet in the 2,000fps to 2,100fps range from the carbine barrel. The .358" bullet has the potential for greater penetration and the .357 has a size advantage with greater striking surface this also matters.

I've found the 220gr Hornady bullet to produce excellent results on 800 pound ungulates, but would prefer a 250gr. bullet, myself. I would not hesitate to shoot a moose at 200 yards with that rifle, and it will easily handle a grizzly at 10feet. I'd just rather have a .338 for that or better yet, something even bigger.

The longer bullets really impinge on case capacity due ot the 2,55" functioning length for the magazine. It might be 2.6" OAL, but that's not much help.

It is a North American ctg. for North American game. It will handle any of the medium to smaller antelope, I am sure - probably leopard (not by me). Even though it will duplicate the JDJ.375 Pistol's ballistics, it is not an elephant or buffalo gun & neither is the JDJ, IMHO.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Paul
.400 member


Reged: 28/08/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Re: 375 WIN Lever Action [Re: DarylS]
      #152359 - 31/01/10 08:04 PM

Yes, Daryl,
spot on about the lack of comparison with the 338. I'd be interested to know how I might safely get 2000fps out of my M94 375 Win with 250-grain bullets, though, esp if it involves Reloader 7 powder. I haven't checked for a while but the best I can remember was about 1860fps from the factory loads, at least.

CR, maybe you should look at something like the 375 Ruger or 458 Win made up into the BAR or its pump-action brother. If they are legal where you go in Africa, they might be OK, esp. if you use only new or full-length-resized ammo.

I know you already have a .45/70 but have you thought of this:

http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/catalog/detail.asp?family=024C&mid=534053

Marlin make good ones, too, but I think the Winchester looks sexier.

Cheers
- Paul

Edited by Paul (31/01/10 08:09 PM)


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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26677
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 375 WIN Lever Action [Re: Paul]
      #152391 - 01/02/10 03:22 AM

Yes - I think you might attain 2,000fps with a 250gr. form the carbine's 20" bl., considering the 220's will run well over 2,200fps, 2,000 isn't out of order. Be prepared for quite heavily compressed loading. AA1680 might be a better bet, although it seems to be on the fast side, I've run, but not chronographed loads that are supposed to run 2,400fps - bl. length not known. theywere fire and much snortier than typical 38.0gr. Re#7 loads, using the 220gr.
The factory 250gr. PP Winchester was a good bullet. I'm not familiar with any other flat point in that weight and calibre.



--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Tatume
.400 member


Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
Loc: Gloucester, Va USA
Re: 375 WIN Lever Action [Re: DarylS]
      #152507 - 02/02/10 03:57 AM

Here's one you don't see very often.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/954848338/Guns/Rifles/Ruger-Rifles/1-Type/RUGER_3_375_WIN_MINTY.htm

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Take care, Tom
NRA Life Member


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Rule303
.416 member


Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 4960
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: 375 WIN Lever Action [Re: Paul]
      #153678 - 14/02/10 08:27 PM

Quote:

CR, you might get away legally with the 'Big-Bore' somewhere, but that may not make the Africa project a good idea. I suppose the 375 Win might be OK for leopards but I wouldn't want to try it on buffalo or elephant.


I think its replacement, the 356 Win, is more powerful. How the later, side-eject 94 action handles a cartridge almost a rimmed equivalent of the 358 Win is something I'd like to hear explained, however.

Cheers
- Paul




G'day Paul,

I have a model94 angle eject in 356. I think you will find it has the same size action as your 375. Slightly beefier than the standard model 94. Recommended loads are generally 2 grains below the 358Win loads. I have not used the rifle extensively as my kids came along and pig hunting went out the door. However it does handle both factory and home loads with no problems.How it does it? well all I can put it down to is a beefed up action, bolt and locking lug.

Hope that might help.

Cheers
Greg


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9.3x57
.450 member


Reged: 22/04/07
Posts: 5505
Loc: United States
Re: 375 WIN Lever Action [Re: Rule303]
      #153697 - 15/02/10 12:31 AM

A good friend of mine had a bizarre experience with this round, shot from a Marlin.

He shot a medium-sized whitetail, broadside, from about 50 yards with the 250 grain bullet. The deer dropped at the shot. When he got to the deer he noticed blood on its hind quarters and thought "Strnge, the sights were on the shoulder". Then he saw, on the ground next to the deer, a shiney object.

Yup.

The bullet.

It was bent a bit but otherwise demnstrated no sign of expansion.

The bullet took the deer in the shoulder, bounced off some bone and veered to travel a course lengthwise of the deer and then popped out, exiting heading BACK toward the shooter!

He still has the bullet, and it is weird.

I always wondered about the velocity of this cartridge, and personally think Daryl, as usual, has the "fix"; the lighter bullets running "fast" for this caliber. This is not, in my opinion, much of a cartridge for heavy bullets unless they are soft.

It always annoyed me that Winchester used the cutdown .38-55/blown-out .30-30 sort-of {I know the brass is heavier} for this round. I always wished they took the .444 Marlin case, opened it to .375 and used that to get a bit more velocity.

In fact, a project I have not yet accomplished but intend to if we are able to save our elk herds is to have a Marlin 1895 rebarreled to .38-56 {yes, -56, not -55}. THAT is a dandy round, and with modern bullets and powders would be a sheer killer, duplicating the 9.3x57 in virtually all ways, with options for light and heavy bullets, and 250 yard potential easy on deer.

Anyway, the Winchester 94's in .375 ARE handy, and with the right bullets, obviously killers as Daryl has posted.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26677
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 375 WIN Lever Action [Re: 9.3x57]
      #153704 - 15/02/10 01:26 AM

I gave my bro a .356 M94 for a 'carry gun' while hiking with his wife. The 11 pound .50 cal. Sharps was a bit much for walk-abouts.
Best load and the one he uses for guiding & which has now killed 5 or 6 wounded moose, is a 250gr. Hornady, seated deeply over 46gr. H335. This gives him 2,158fps and will hold 1 1/8" to 1 1/2" at 100 meters off the bags with a 2X scope. It is very accurate. A Lee crimp die is suggested as a very heavy crimp is needed to hold the bullets. the heavily compressed charge prevents them from being seated more deeply in the case.
The factory .356 Win. 250gr. that I chrono'd only made 1,850fps form the 20" bl. The load I list above does not produce excessive pressure in my (his) gun.

Although all the gun writers say the .356 had less capacity and therefore must not be used with .358 data, a lot of .356 data exceeds .358 data - go figure.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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