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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles

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RLI
.375 member

Reged: 01/10/03
Posts: 534
Loc: Victoria, Australia

400H&H and 465H&H any rifles available yet?
#33505 - 21/06/05 01:38 PM

I have read reports and seen diagrams of the new H&H cartridges namely the .400H&H and .465H&H but does anyone know of any rifles in these calibres for sale?

Steve

--------------------
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid." — John Wayne

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NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39321
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: 400H&H and 465H&H any rifles available yet? [Re: RLI]
#33508 - 21/06/05 01:47 PM

Probably from H&H.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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rgp
.333 member

Reged: 17/06/04
Posts: 373
Loc: TX & VIC

Re: 400H&H and 465H&H any rifles available yet? [Re: RLI]
#33511 - 21/06/05 02:54 PM

RLI,

No to factory rifles in that chambering, but at least one guy, I think in the USA, is building or has built a rifle to the stated chamber and bore dimensions.

Richard.

Edit:

NitroX is probably correct on the H&H option since H&H developed them, but I would suspect nobody else offers the calibres. I'd almost be willing to bet the H&H rifles in those calibres will be based on outsourced Mauser actions. RGP.

Edited by rgp (21/06/05 03:00 PM)

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450_Ackley
.375 member

Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 583
Loc: Darling Downs, Qld Australia

Re: 400H&H and 465H&H any rifles available yet? [Re: rgp]
#33525 - 21/06/05 05:17 PM

Pac-Nor has listed on their website that they currently make .411 cal barrels, and also have available a reamer for the 400 H&H, you can order a pre-chambered, threaded, profiled barrel from them and just get your local gunsmith to headspace it and final fit the barrel for you.
Bet they will get a heap of jobs when word gets around, I'm sure an M70 or similar would be an easy re-barrel.
Take a look at www.pac-nor.com

450 Ackley

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RLI
.375 member

Reged: 01/10/03
Posts: 534
Loc: Victoria, Australia

Re: 400H&H and 465H&H any rifles available yet? [Re: NitroX]
#33530 - 21/06/05 06:11 PM

H&H made .400H&H would be nice but price ..........,I have a Winchester M70 Pre64 .375H&H I could convert it to .400H&H but a new Winchester or Dakota would be a better idea. Time will tell if the major rifle companies take it up. A set of rifles in the following would be a good collection

.300H&H
.375H&H
.400H&H
.465H&H

Left Hand of course!

Steve

--------------------
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid." — John Wayne

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500Nitro
.450 member

Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia

Re: 400H&H and 465H&H any rifles available yet? [Re: RLI]
#33531 - 21/06/05 06:19 PM

Holland have a 400 Bolt action for sale at the moment.

Steve - a pre 64 Action would need a bit of strengthening / cross bolting
- after all the Pre 64 stocks split on the 375H&H's.

500 Nitro

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RLI
.375 member

Reged: 01/10/03
Posts: 534
Loc: Victoria, Australia

Re: 400H&H and 465H&H any rifles available yet? [Re: 500Nitro]
#33532 - 21/06/05 06:29 PM

The one I have has not split yet but you are right they need cross bolts and if I did go ahead with it I would get a new stock made up

--------------------
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid." — John Wayne

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NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39321
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: 400H&H and 465H&H any rifles available yet? [Re: RLI]
#33537 - 21/06/05 08:27 PM

In reply to:

I have a Winchester M70 Pre64 .375H&H I could convert it to .400H&H but a new Winchester or Dakota would be a better idea. Time will tell if the major rifle companies take it up. A set of rifles in the following would be a good collection

.300H&H
.375H&H
.400H&H
.465H&H

A takedown Dakota in the first three of those would be very nice.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Mike_McGuire
.333 member

Reged: 11/06/05
Posts: 348
Loc: Sydney Australia

Re: 400H&H and 465H&H any rifles available yet? [Re: NitroX]
#33542 - 22/06/05 12:05 AM

I would like to know if the 465 H&H is truly from the 378 Wby case or is it like the Rem Ultra and 404....very similar but the Ultra case is slightly bigger on the case head.

I just can't imagine H&H having something that is based on Weatherby.

Mike

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NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39321
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: 400H&H and 465H&H any rifles available yet? [Re: Mike_McGuire]
#33545 - 22/06/05 12:49 AM

In reply to:

I just can't imagine H&H having something that is based on Weatherby.

As all Weatherbys are based on the .375 H&H Magnum, maybe that is what ultimately H&H based the .465 H&H Magnum on.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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500grains
.416 member

Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA

Re: 400H&H and 465H&H any rifles available yet? [Re: NitroX]
#33547 - 22/06/05 12:54 AM

Actually, the 378 Wby, 416 Wby and 460 Wby are not based on the 375 H&H case. The large Wby mags have a larger head size than the 375 H&H. Also, the 465 H&H uses the same head size as the large Wby mags.

Perhaps these new HH calibers are just a flash in the pan.

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NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39321
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: 400H&H and 465H&H any rifles available yet? [Re: 500grains]
#33549 - 22/06/05 01:39 AM

Learned something new.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Mike_McGuire
.333 member

Reged: 11/06/05
Posts: 348
Loc: Sydney Australia

Re: 400H&H and 465H&H any rifles available yet? [Re: NitroX]
#33551 - 22/06/05 02:09 AM

John,

The 378 case is essentially a 416 Rigby Improved and with belt added and 30/378, 338/378, 416 Wby and 460 are the 378 case necked up or down. The are a few grains larger than the 416 Rigby case.

300 Wby and 340 Wby are basically the 375 H&H Improved neck down and the 375 Wby is a 375 Improved

257, 270 and 7mm Wby are shortened 300 Wbys necked down. They are similar to 7mm Rem case but with longer necks.

240 Wby has rim and belt diamter of 30/06 head size and thus is slightly smaller in body diamter than the 30/06. But with the thinner Norma brass and less body taper the case capacity is about the same as a 6mm/06

The extinct 224 Wby is basically the 219 Zipper Improved or 225 Winchester but with a belted case.

And all the Wbys have the double radius shoulder which gives them the look that the chamber was cut with a worn out reamer

Mike

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BFaucett
.333 member

Reged: 13/01/04
Posts: 449
Loc: Houston, Texas

Re: 400H&H and 465H&H any rifles available yet? [Re: Mike_McGuire]
#33572 - 22/06/05 11:49 AM

Regarding the Weatherby cartridges, Mike378 has got it exactly right.

-Bob F.

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atkinson6
.375 member

Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho

Re: 400H&H and 465H&H any rifles available yet? [Re: BFaucett]
#34171 - 01/07/05 02:38 PM

Well its been awhile since the birth announcement of those two, and I think they died at birth....as I suspected they would..They are for those folks that have to have something different, other than that they have absolutly nothing to offer.....

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Minkman
.224 member

Reged: 29/04/04
Posts: 9
Loc: NJ USA

Re: 400H&H and 465H&H any rifles available yet? [Re: atkinson6]
#34185 - 02/07/05 02:59 AM

Didn't H&H already make the 465H&H? Below as posted in the double rifle forum, are prices from 1987. Are these 465's model numbers or cartridge size?

Jeffery 400 3". Overall good. Original case. AU$3500

H&H 465 Royal. Cased as new. AU$10000.

H&H 465. Badminton Model, detachable locks, new case, excellent bores. AU$10000

Lancaster 470NE Overall Fine cased. AU$6000.

Thanks

Minkman

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Mike_McGuire
.333 member

Reged: 11/06/05
Posts: 348
Loc: Sydney Australia

Re: 400H&H and 465H&H any rifles available yet? [Re: Minkman]
#34186 - 02/07/05 03:39 AM

Minkman

They are the rimmed cartridges for the double rifle. A 465 H&H double cartridge is about like the 470 Nitro.

The new 465 H&H is a belted rimless case for bolt actions. It is basically the 460 Wby case but with the sort of taper and shoulder you see on a 300 H&H.

The new 400 H&H is based on the 375 H&H and has a shape very similar to the 404 Jeffery. That is, virtually no body taper but a long sloping shoulder and long neck.

If you do a search on this site I think John Ricks posted pictures of the 400 H&H.

Mike

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BFaucett
.333 member

Reged: 13/01/04
Posts: 449
Loc: Houston, Texas

Re: 400H&H and 465H&H any rifles available yet? [Re: Mike_McGuire]
#34190 - 02/07/05 06:35 AM

Holland's New Cartridges
http://www.african-hunter.com/new_h&h_cartridges.htm

Two new Holland & Holland big-game rifle cartridges
http://www.hollandandholland.com/shooting_field/volume11/v11p06.htm

-Bob F.

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atkinson6
.375 member

Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho

Re: 400H&H and 465H&H any rifles available yet? [Re: BFaucett]
#34285 - 04/07/05 04:42 AM

The 400 is just a 416 Rem necked down to .411 as I recall, I can't think of anything we needed less!

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mussd0
.224 member

Reged: 11/08/06
Posts: 7
Loc: Adelaide, South Australia

Re: 400H&H and 465H&H any rifles available yet? [Re: RLI]
#61151 - 14/08/06 09:11 PM

Hi Steve,

I'm new to Nitroexpress.com, I too am impressed by the reports on the new H&H cartridges, So much so that I have had a 465 chamber reamer machined from the H&H data to build a rifle, I am now trying to find suppliers of Brass, dies and 465 diameter barrels.

Any Suggestions????

Daniel.

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hoppdoc
.400 member

Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA

Re: 400H&H and 465H&H any rifles available yet? [Re: atkinson6]
#61153 - 14/08/06 09:59 PM

Question--

What are the ballistics of the cartridges and what real advantages do they have over the 416 Rem and 460 Weatherby?

Appears very redundant to me!!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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500Nitro
.450 member

Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia

Re: 400H&H and 465H&H any rifles available yet? [Re: mussd0]
#61154 - 14/08/06 10:51 PM

Call Holland & Holland or Romey or Bertram for Brass
RCBS for Dies
Woodleigh for Bullets

Reamers ? - try someone in the US or ask Holland's
who would make a barrel.

Good luck

500 Nitro

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500grains
.416 member

Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA

Re: 400H&H and 465H&H any rifles available yet? [Re: 500Nitro]
#61158 - 14/08/06 11:06 PM

Pac-Nor barrels will build any barrel you want if you spring for any specialized tooling that is necessary.

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Mike_McGuire
.333 member

Reged: 11/06/05
Posts: 348
Loc: Sydney Australia

Re: 400H&H and 465H&H any rifles available yet? [Re: hoppdoc]
#61159 - 14/08/06 11:25 PM

hoppdoc

For someone wanting a H&H bolt gun the thought of having them done in either 416 Rem or 460 Wby would cause serious heartburn

Kind of like a getting a Weatherby custom in Birseye maple with silver inlays and having it chambered in 9.3 X 62

Also, if the person wanted to use factory ammo, the 460 is about 300 f/s faster than the 465 H&H, which is factory loaded to 458 Lott ballistics.

Mike

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Mike_McGuire
.333 member

Reged: 11/06/05
Posts: 348
Loc: Sydney Australia

Re: 400H&H and 465H&H any rifles available yet? [Re: mussd0]
#61160 - 14/08/06 11:32 PM

Daniel

For a barrel, as per what 500 Grains said about Pac-Nor, but being Australia I would try Tobler or Sprinter Arms, who do cut rifle barrels.

Not 100% sure, but I don't think RCBS any longer do "one off" dies. If so, get CH or Redding, but Redding will cost a fair bit more.

Mike

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