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gryphon
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Reged: 01/01/03
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We don’t breed lions to kill them,we breed them to hunt them
      #149143 - 31/12/09 07:59 AM

Africa : South Africa: Lions face slaughter as South Africans battle over 'canned hunting’
on 2009/12/30 1:57:00
An attempt to regulate the hunting of lions bred in captivity and released as prey would force parks to cull animals, it is claimed.

Lions are reared for clients who pay as much as £20,000 to hunt them.

The South African authorities have come under pressure to outlaw so-called “canned hunting” and have put forward a measure stipulating that lions must roam freely for two years before they can be targeted. Breeders have fought the new regulations, claiming that they would be driven out of business.

A court action brought by breeders failed and they were denied leave to appeal. They have now asked the Supreme Court to rule on whether the measure violates constitutional protections of private property.

Carel van Heerden, the chairman of the South African Predator Breeders’ Association, said that if judges decided not to hear the case, “it will be the end of the road for us”.

“It will be a devastating effect on our members, it will be a sad day for South Africa. It will take away the economic value of every lion,” he added.

The association’s members own around 4,300 lions, each of which costs about £800 a month to feed.

“They will have to kill them,” said Mr van Heerden. “It’s going to be a slaughter.

“If you have to make a decision whether you are going to have to feed those lions and you are not going to get any income from that you are going to have no alternative but to kill them, which is very sad. We don’t breed lions to kill them, we breed them to hunt them.”

Lionesses fetched trophy fees of around £3,000, he said, with males worth as much as £20,000. More than 1,000 government permits are issued annually for the hunting of lions and the export of trophies, mostly to America.

Critics claim that the captive lions are inbred and vulnerable to illness.

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Kalunga
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Reged: 16/06/06
Posts: 328
Loc: Germany
Re: We don’t breed lions to kill them,we breed them to hunt them [Re: gryphon]
      #149152 - 31/12/09 11:01 AM

I almost started crying when I read this, I feel so sorry about these poor business men ! I guess it`s the same misery that drug dealers are going through. They have to feed their family and all that shit. Maybe they should consider to start working,at least that is what some plain people out here are doing to make a living. My suggestion is to feed them to the lions and then bring the noble beasts to places where they are free and save from these bastards. Just my opinion, of course !

Kalunga

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Bramble
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Reged: 29/07/06
Posts: 950
Loc: England
Re: We don’t breed lions to kill them,we breed them to hunt them [Re: Kalunga]
      #149154 - 31/12/09 11:26 AM

It would seem that one has to put up the trophy fee so that it is comensurate with feeding the lion for 2 years as it matures.
If people will pay the fee it is a legitimate business.
If they will not then it speaks for itself.

In reality it is saying that lots of hunting tourists want to shoot a cheep tame kitty.

Well shame on them.

Regards

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gatsby
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Reged: 05/09/05
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Re: We don’t breed lions to kill them,we breed them to hunt them [Re: Kalunga]
      #149156 - 31/12/09 11:56 AM

Quote:

I almost started crying when I read this, I feel so sorry about these poor business men ! I guess it`s the same misery that drug dealers are going through. They have to feed their family and all that shit. Maybe they should consider to start working,at least that is what some plain people out here are doing to make a living. My suggestion is to feed them to the lions and then bring the noble beasts to places where they are free and save from these bastards. Just my opinion, of course !

Kalunga




These "ranchers" were working within the framework of existing laws and regulations and with the stroke of a pen their investments were renderered worthless. I don't see how they can be equated to criminals who deal in drugs. There are alot of canned hunts and stocked fields worldwide

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"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar



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gryphon
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Re: We don’t breed lions to kill them,we breed them to hunt [Re: gatsby]
      #149157 - 31/12/09 12:33 PM

Quote:




These "ranchers" were working within the framework of existing laws and regulations and with the stroke of a pen their investments were rendered worthless. I don't see how they can be equated to criminals who deal in drugs. There are alot of canned hunts and stocked fields worldwide



Well they can just as easily adapt to the new laws then in my book and the fellas that buy the canned meat variety can do some real hunting for free and wild lions.

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bwananelson
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Reged: 08/10/07
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Re: We don’t breed lions to kill them,we breed them to hunt [Re: gryphon]
      #149162 - 31/12/09 03:51 PM

and we practice the same methods here in the USA trophy deer anyone pay by the score, want to shoot quail and pheasants till your arms hurt we have pens of birds that dont fly hard and ready to shoot.maybe you want a big elk for your trophy room we can do it just write a check.we have fenced mule deer,mountain goat,big horn sheep,well hell in texas there are places you can kill from your computer use your mouse to aim and shoot we will pick up the carcus and mail it to you stuffed dont even have to travel anymore no airport problems we are here to serve all hunters.look how far we have come what a mess i guess we could shoot our own beef in the pasture like bison.and what stories we could tell our friends just remind the taxidermist to remove the ear tag hard to explain that to your buddies.so its off to the hunt,or shoot or kill or what would we call it

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THERE ARE NO DO OVERS IN LIFE DONT LET A CHANCE AT A DREAM SLIP AWAY.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: We don’t breed lions to kill them,we breed them to hunt [Re: bwananelson]
      #149165 - 31/12/09 04:23 PM

As much as I dislike canned lion hunting, I dislike the killing off of the lion breeding pens and populations ever more. These lions represent the biggest population to ensure lions do not become truly endangered.

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John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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gryphon
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Re: We don’t breed lions to kill them,we breed them to hunt [Re: NitroX]
      #149170 - 31/12/09 04:51 PM

The zoo`s of the world have a lot of trouble STOPPING the lions in captivity breeding so successfully Nitro IE they breed freely and soon outgrow their accom cobber...there is absolutely no problems with lion numbers through out the world...besides these blokes are breeding to kill not to keep and you can bet your bottom dollar that unlike the wild where the new Lion takes over the pride and kills his predecessors offspring each and every lion would be kept for its dollar value....I even sense inbreeding going on also.

Its not good for us collectively as hunters( serious that is)

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bwananelson
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Re: We don’t breed lions to kill them,we breed them to hunt [Re: gryphon]
      #149175 - 31/12/09 05:56 PM

that i disagree with the lion is in trouble from disease habitat loss predation on livestock,parvo its a fact the numbers are down quotas have been cut its not looking good in our life time we have lost the black rhino the lion will be next.of coarse there is some in breeding but i believe that artificial insemination will help that,its here to stay like it is all over the world.it will be the hunter that will be endangered not the shooter but the real hunter,we should petition the record books only wild free range animals can be entered non of this estate pussy bullshit.lets honor the real hunter.

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THERE ARE NO DO OVERS IN LIFE DONT LET A CHANCE AT A DREAM SLIP AWAY.

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JabaliHunter
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Reged: 16/05/07
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Loc: England
Re: We don’t breed lions to kill them,we breed them to hunt [Re: bwananelson]
      #149197 - 01/01/10 01:46 AM

Quote:

in our life time we have lost the black rhino


I think that is a little premature...
As for the Lion Breeders Association - f*~k 'em ...

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albertan
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Reged: 13/06/06
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Loc: Alberta, Canada
Re: We don’t breed lions to kill them,we breed them to hunt [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #149520 - 05/01/10 04:50 PM

In 2006 I blew my fortune to hunt lion in Zimbabwe because in my heart I believed that lion hunting would become extinct in my lifetime. I regret to inform you that I still do. 30 to 40 years from now I doubt if there will be free-ranging trophy lions anywhere in huntable populations. Kenya, Angola, and the Sudan were once unbelievable hunting areas. Alas, they will never be again. Zimbabwe is next. With the ever-growing human population, mineral exploitation(Tanzania's petroleum industry is being asisted my none other than Chevron and Exxon.) Africa, that is wild Africa, where the lion roars is soon to be a thing of the past. SCI and their ilk had better lift their heads' from the sand.

Leopard, Cape buffalo, and elephant will still be on the table long after I have left this Earth. The lions of wild Africa will depart before me.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: We don’t breed lions to kill them,we breed them to hunt [Re: albertan]
      #149604 - 06/01/10 02:57 PM

Unfortunately lion and humans (ie their cattle) don't mix.

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John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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cooch
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Reged: 21/09/03
Posts: 192
Loc: Southern NSW
Re: We don’t breed lions to kill them,we breed them to hunt [Re: NitroX]
      #149667 - 06/01/10 11:57 PM

Nobody seems to be bothering to define what is "canned", and what is not.

How big is the "pen". 5 acres. or 50,000?
Exactly how much country does a lion need to disply its natural avoidance behaviour?

Define "tame".
Really tame lions need to be taught to hunt and kill.

There are two issues here.
One is the sale of an animal that ios private property and bred for sale. No different from cattle, and arguing differently is complete Bambi'ism.

The second is the sale of the experience. If people are knowingly paying to shoot a tame lion, then shame on them, but that isn't a good basis for banning it. However if people are paying for a truly wild hunt and not getting what they paid for, then that is fraud and should be dealt with as such.

There should be a certain degree of "Buyer beware" in any such purchased hunt, but it isn't inappropriate to regulate such practices. Point is that nopt all operators will be the same, and we should not support attacking the good ones to get at the bad.

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"The only logical response to an animal that lives obsessed with avoiding capture is to chase it." - Jose Ortega y Gassett

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