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Hunting >> Hunting in Africa & hunting dangerous game

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gryphon
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Reged: 01/01/03
Posts: 5487
Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...
hunt sales down
      #124905 - 23/01/09 04:29 AM

USA : USA: Big game African hunt packages are taking a huge hit from the economy
on 2009/1/23 0:01:01 (7 reads)

ORLANDO, Fla. — At an event that is nothing but business, both big and small, 95 percent of the chatter leads straight to the economy, and 95 percent of that is negative.

Outside of the gun manufacturers, most of the industry has taken some sort of negative hit in the last eight months, but perhaps no section has been hit harder than the high dollar, big game safari hunts that go to different parts of Africa and across the world.

Chris Lordan, a manager and outfitter for Africa Sport Hunting Safaris, said in a day and a half at the SHOT Show, they hadn't sold a single hunt — but Lordan added that selling two hunts in a show would be a success and there's still plenty of show left.

"Repeat lines we've done well," Lordan said, referring to customers that have hunted with them before. "We haven't really noticed in major change. We expected worse than what we've seen to be honest."

Two booths down, Walter Enslin of Kwan Safaris wasn't as optimistic. Kwan cut their prices nearly in half to try and adjust to the failing global economy and, according to Enslin, have gotten almost no return.

"We're trying to make it feasible for the normal guy in America to come to South Africa," Enslin said. "It hasn't worked. I just don't think the money is there this year. Those prices should get a lot more attention than they are."

Like African Sport Hunting Safaris, Enslin said Kwan is not having trouble keeping the hunters that have been with them for years, it's the new customer business that's all but completely shut down.

"The guy that walks through an outdoor show and comes by your booth and wants to go on a hunt is no more — there isn't any first-time safari business," Enslin said.

Kiley Matthews, co-owner and operator of Africa Sport Hunting Safaris, said they haven't lowered their prices, but they have attempted to add to the value of their original prices. The company is now offering photo expeditions in addition to the hunt, to make it more of a family affair.

"If you add that on as a specialized service for the guys that want to come with their family, it makes a big difference," Lordan said.

But the problem remains that in an economy that's forcing families and individuals to take a closer look at their finances, a $15,000 hunt can make room for a lot of gas and groceries.

"If you lose 100k and your $50 million strong, what's the difference?" Enslin said. "But Joe on the street who's loosing his 401k just doesn't have the money."

http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/general/news/story?id=3849873

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.


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Der_Jaeger
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Reged: 09/10/08
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Loc: SE Pennsylvania
Re: hunt sales down [Re: gryphon]
      #124912 - 23/01/09 04:59 AM



All very good points and we've seen these come to fruition in one form or another. One man's down economy is another man's opportunity. Just like the housing market people are complaining about over here; Down economies are perfect times in which to buy.

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AspenHill
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Reged: 08/01/03
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Re: hunt sales down [Re: Der_Jaeger]
      #124975 - 24/01/09 12:54 AM

This is what I am facing:

~~~~~~~~~

Article published Jan 23, 2009

Douglas slashes budget, calls for cutting 660 jobs

By Louis Porter Vermont Press Bureau
MONTPELIER – Facing a $201 million gap between state revenue and expenditures over the next fiscal year, Gov. James Douglas' Thursday proposed a budget that would take its toll on services and workers across nearly all of state government.

Those feeling the pain would include some of the elderly, the disabled, the blind, doctors and 660 state workers if the budget – $1.1 billion of state General Fund spending and more than $4 billion in education and federal spending – is approved. The proposed budget is expected to be a smaller budget in terms of state money than any time back to fiscal year 2006.

Of the 660 state positions which would be eliminated if the budget were approved by lawmakers, roughly 285 of those workers are expected to be in the Agency of Human Services, while about 45 are expected to be in the Agency of Natural Resources.

The cuts would come both through the removal of vacant positions and layoffs. That reduction, which amounts to roughly 8 percent of the state workforce, is on top of the 400 previous vacant positions already eliminated.

There were no increases in broad based taxes proposed by the governor, who has held strong to his insistence that such taxes would be counter-productive. One tax increase that will be "inevitable" over the next year, however, is the assessment levied on employers to pay for the state's unemployment insurance program, Douglas said.

The fund is projected to be as much as $97 million short by the end of the next fiscal year. "Employers in Vermont will pay an additional tax," the governor said.

"Vermonters expect us to preserve basic services for the many, and not just a more generous benefit for the few," Douglas said, in a sentence that effectively summed up his approach to the tough fiscal times. "There is no joy in making cuts at such a challenging time."

But Democratic lawmakers said they had several issues with the proposed budget, although they have not reviewed it thoroughly yet.

"My concern is that most of the cuts here are going to be in the human services budget," Speaker of the House Shap Smith, D-Morrisville, said. They also worried about a possible addition to the property tax through Douglas' requested changes to school funding.

"We have an obligation to be transparent with Vermonters when we are going to take money out of their pockets," he said.

The elimination of the state's prescription drug benefit VPharm is "particularly difficult" Douglas said, given that his administration and the Legislature pledged when they created the program several years ago not to allow Vermonters to be hurt financially by the Medicare Part D program – as they will be now.

Such a cut was already included in a proposed change to the current year budget. Lawmakers have recently been hearing from Vermonters who will be hurt by the change and are not eager to cut the program.

Douglas also targeted – in the rhetoric of his speech if not action given the constraints on his power – public school spending and the state's nonprofits.

"Bringing education spending in line with other important aspects of government is the first step toward a more equitable budget," Douglas said.

The governor incorporated in the budget savings from his recent proposal to change school funding, including shifting $40 million in teacher's retirement payments to the Education Fund.

The changes amount to an increase in local property taxes, Democratic leaders in the Legislature said.

But Douglas disagreed. If school spending in the budgets that are to be voted on in a few weeks is reduced, the changes can be made without property tax increases, he said.

"It will hold the line on property taxes if local school budgets are not increased on a per pupil basis," he said.

As for nonprofits, "a review of salaries for non-profit executives reveals some with robust compensation packages well in excess of state or municipal employees," Douglas said.

The housing organizations across the state particularly should be consolidated, Douglas said.

The governor also proposed directing more than $8 million that would have gone to the Vermont Housing and Conservation Board to the General Fund instead, although half of that would be replaced with expected federal money.

Vermont State Employees Association leaders said the proposal to cut 660 positions and workers is a mistake.

"This is a grim day particularly for the very vulnerable population of Vermonters who depend on the work of Vermont state employees," said Jes Kraus, the head of the union, who called the budget as proposed "an anti-stimulus package."

Administration officials said they could not, under fair bargaining rules, unilaterally propose re-opening the union contract to institute reduced hours or pay instead of layoffs. But they did not rule out the idea.

"That is a membership decision," Kraus said. But, he added, the administration has not been helpful about getting information to the union about how much the layoffs are expected to save and how many of them there will be in what departments.
~~~~~~~~~~

It could be a long time before I can afford a trip back to Africa or anywhere else.

--------------------
~Ann

Everyday spent outdoors is the best day of my life.

Aspen Hill Adventures


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: hunt sales down [Re: Der_Jaeger]
      #124977 - 24/01/09 12:58 AM

Quote:



All very good points and we've seen these come to fruition in one form or another. One man's down economy is another man's opportunity. Just like the housing market people are complaining about over here; Down economies are perfect times in which to buy.






Agree with your analogy..have received several flyers in the past couple of months..and deals can be had if one has the resources to follow through..just got another last night---hunt PAC elephants in Zim for $7600 all in..not a bad price...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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500grains
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Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: hunt sales down [Re: Ripp]
      #125020 - 24/01/09 04:09 PM

Ann, sorry to hear that. I hope it does not come to pass.

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: hunt sales down [Re: 500grains]
      #125280 - 28/01/09 02:32 PM

Ann

Good Luck. In the up coming couple of years times will be tough. Are you still considering the NY job?

I hope Frank and Schumer realize what they have done.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
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Loc: Montana, USA
Re: hunt sales down [Re: mickey]
      #125312 - 29/01/09 12:58 AM

Quote:

Ann

Good Luck. In the up coming couple of years times will be tough. Are you still considering the NY job?

I hope Frank and Schumer realize what they have done.





Ann--Hope things work out..really do...but it is going to take some time before this things settles down...

As to Franks and Schumer..are you kidding me?/ They are FAR too arrogant to even consider they might be either wrong or at fault for everything...

Just read that part of the stimulous package passed earlier this year was for a major donator to his compaign---a little unkown bank in his area ---who oddly enough got $12,000,000.--I am sure that is pure coincidence...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
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Loc: Montana, USA
Re: hunt sales down [Re: Ripp]
      #125313 - 29/01/09 01:00 AM


As to the original topic--hunt sales----heard attendance was estimated to be down at SCI by over 30% --some have told me up to 40%....

Tallked to a few booking agents who stated it was probably as bad as it has been for quite some time...

Curious what others may have seen or heard..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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AspenHill
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Reged: 08/01/03
Posts: 1528
Loc: Vermont, USA
Re: hunt sales down [Re: Ripp]
      #125332 - 29/01/09 07:29 AM

Things are declining here...

Job Cuts

--------------------
~Ann

Everyday spent outdoors is the best day of my life.

Aspen Hill Adventures


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poprivit
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Reged: 09/04/07
Posts: 397
Loc: Las Vegas, NV
Re: hunt sales down [Re: AspenHill]
      #125339 - 29/01/09 11:21 AM

SCI was off 30% of vendors according to media support (I'm media, write for African Hunter Magazine) Saturday at one O'clock the aisles were as - well, not uncrowded - but about equal to Thursday. Three outfitter friends sold zero. Hunt prices are waaaay down. If you can afford a safari - go this year, or 2010.

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bwananelson
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Reged: 08/10/07
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Loc: DELTONA FLORIDA
Re: hunt sales down [Re: poprivit]
      #125341 - 29/01/09 11:38 AM

most of us cant(regular joes)i would rather spend on a rifle and wait for better times.only hunted locally this year and plan only minor hunt for 2010.money is tight globally not just here but all of us are going to take a bad hit,with people loosing jobs and homes hunts will be on the back burner till better times.but they will come back.in the last two years i took 0 out of state hunts but i did get 5 doubles they will always be liquid.a hunt leaves a memory granted good but it wont save your house or put gas in the car when your looking for work.and it will get worse long before it gets better.history does repeat itself REMEMBER THE GREAT DEPRESSION......

--------------------
THERE ARE NO DO OVERS IN LIFE DONT LET A CHANCE AT A DREAM SLIP AWAY.


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
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Re: hunt sales down [Re: poprivit]
      #125383 - 30/01/09 01:49 AM

Quote:

SCI was off 30% of vendors according to media support (I'm media, write for African Hunter Magazine) Saturday at one O'clock the aisles were as - well, not uncrowded - but about equal to Thursday. Three outfitter friends sold zero. Hunt prices are waaaay down. If you can afford a safari - go this year, or 2010.




Agree totally...if you can go --go now or 2010---Yes you can buy guns, and you will be able to sell them if needed..but if shit really hits the fan, you will have a harder time getting rid of them as well, at least for what you may want for them..however the low prices in hunting will NOT last forever..view that similar to the current gas prices...while I believe there is no way they will last, I will enjoy filling now at $1.40 per gallon while I can...same goes to hunting an ele..if I can go now for 1/2 the normal rate...what, 1/2 the rate...I better get packing....see ya...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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MKresinske
.275 member


Reged: 23/02/08
Posts: 65
Loc: NY, USA
Re: hunt sales down [Re: Ripp]
      #125412 - 30/01/09 08:08 AM

I am going to Harrisburg PA for the Eastern Sportsmans show 7 Feb. Will be interesting to see how large the crowds are and hunt prices. I agree Ripp, now is the time to book whatever hunts you may want. Prices will not stay down very long. If nothing else, put down deposits and reserve the price.

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450_366
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Reged: 17/01/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: Sweden, west-coast.
Re: hunt sales down [Re: Ripp]
      #125415 - 30/01/09 08:37 AM

Quote:

..however the low prices in hunting will NOT last forever..view that similar to the current gas prices...while I believe there is no way they will last, I will enjoy filling now at $1.40 per gallon while I can...

Ripp




What the .... here we dont even get a liter for that price, and the diesel costs even more.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"


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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: hunt sales down [Re: 450_366]
      #125420 - 30/01/09 12:20 PM

Quote:

Quote:

..however the low prices in hunting will NOT last forever..view that similar to the current gas prices...while I believe there is no way they will last, I will enjoy filling now at $1.40 per gallon while I can...

Ripp




What the .... here we dont even get a liter for that price, and the diesel costs even more.






Yes--the price is amazing --over $4.per gallon this summer and actually last week I paid $1.34 per gallon...but, fear not--it will go up--there is NO way this is economically sustainable..however--now might not be too bad of a time to pick up some oil stocks..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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AspenHill
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Loc: Vermont, USA
Re: hunt sales down [Re: Ripp]
      #125492 - 31/01/09 11:01 AM

Not related to hunting but fuel in VT is $1.89 per gallon. We get no bargains here in the northeast. I am looking at a layoff from work too.

--------------------
~Ann

Everyday spent outdoors is the best day of my life.

Aspen Hill Adventures


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mikeh416Rigby
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Reged: 24/02/03
Posts: 6051
Loc: The beautiful Oley Valley, PA....
Re: hunt sales down [Re: AspenHill]
      #125526 - 31/01/09 04:07 PM

I paid $1.89 a gallon for regular today as well. It must have something to do with global warming.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: hunt sales down [Re: AspenHill]
      #125820 - 04/02/09 06:38 PM

Ann

I hope things go well for you and it does not happen.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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AspenHill
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Re: hunt sales down [Re: NitroX]
      #125843 - 05/02/09 02:48 AM

There was a meeting today and it was not one that gave much hope at this point.

--------------------
~Ann

Everyday spent outdoors is the best day of my life.

Aspen Hill Adventures


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shakari
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Reged: 09/02/03
Posts: 1107
Loc: South Africa
Re: hunt sales down [Re: AspenHill]
      #125846 - 05/02/09 04:06 AM

Ann,

I'd have expected your kind of job would have good security....... sorry to hear I was wrong!

Hope it all goes well for you.

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



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