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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles
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gryphon
.450 member


Reged: 01/01/03
Posts: 5487
Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...
35 whelen to 358 Nm
      #96243 - 08/02/08 04:45 AM

i`m looking at buying a pre owned Rem 700 in 35 Whelen,can anyone of you fellas tell me if this is indeed worth while in converting it to 358 Norma mag?

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.

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JabaliHunter
.400 member


Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England
Re: 35 whelen to 358 Nm [Re: gryphon]
      #96245 - 08/02/08 05:31 AM

By worthwhile, do you mean expense or necessity? Is the Whelen just too slow for you?
If so, the simplest/cheapest would be to just get the chamber cut to the Ackley improved version rather than having bolt work and magazine work done as well...

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szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2118
Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming
Re: 35 whelen to 358 Nm [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #96249 - 08/02/08 07:08 AM

For the increase in usefulness (which I believe to be small) I would not convert it if it were mine.
But that's just my judgment. I hunt elk every year and the 35 Whelen is fairly popular here in Wyoming for elk and moose. I have seen several animals killed with it, and I am very impressed at how well it works without a lot of recoil, and with a 5 round mag and 22 inch barrel.

You'd need to either open up the bolt face or change the bolt to a magnum bolt. If you open it up, you need a new extractor (no big deal)
Next you will have to re-chamber the barrel.
Next you will probably have to tinker with the magazine box a bit to get it to feed smoothly.
When you are all done you will gain some velocity.
But to put it in proper perspective we need to look at the velocities over a bit of range.

The 35 Whelen will start a 250 grain bullet at 2400 FPS and the 358 Norma at 2700
That's quite a jump, but if you look at the figures at 100 yards it gets more reveling.
The Norma is going 2400 at 100 yds, the same as the Whelen is at the muzzle.
So there's no question that it will shoot flatter, and have the advantage at every range mathematically.
However the "real world question" is this:
Is that extra 100 yds of range over the 35 Whelen of any real value in the game fields you will hunt in?
That's a question only you can answer.
And then, if the answer is "yes" you must decide if that advantage is worth the expense of the conversion.


I wonder if my statements here have helped or hindered you.
???
I hope it was helpful

Happy hunting
Steve Zihn

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Tatume
.400 member


Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
Loc: Gloucester, Va USA
Re: 35 whelen to 358 Nm [Re: szihn]
      #96256 - 08/02/08 09:16 AM

A useful way to compare trajectories is to compare point blank range, even if you don't use the method in the field. At 2700 fps the Nosler Partition has a 5" point blank range (that is, +/- 2.5 inches) of 250 yards. The same bullet at 2400 fps will go 225 yards without going more than 2.5 inches above or below the line of sight. That's not a big gain for the money (and recoil).

Take care, Tom

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Nakihunter
.375 member


Reged: 13/10/07
Posts: 588
Loc: New Zealand
Re: 35 whelen to 358 Nm [Re: Tatume]
      #96264 - 08/02/08 09:34 AM

I have hunted with a 358 Win and the Whelan has about 100 fps advantage. I now have a 9.3X62 with 24 inch barrel & this has a slightly bigger advantage over the Whelan & with heavier bullets.

In the real world, my 9.3 is probably as good as a Whelan for Sambar or less. It is probably a better performer on Buffalo (I have not hunted them).

If I was after buffalo, I would go with an Ackley Improved chamber as suggested by Jabbali hunter. If it is for general hunting, I would stick to the Whelan. The value of the rifle would be retained if it is a Remington Classic (each year they bring out a differnt caliber).

Good luck

--------------------
Always shoot through the target & not just at it.

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26671
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 35 whelen to 358 Nm [Re: Nakihunter]
      #96266 - 08/02/08 10:03 AM

I've had them both and there is a 200fps+ change, difference between them at the muzzle - sometimes a billte more, sometimes a little less- all dependent on the barrel, it's length and idiosyncracies.
; 2,600fps for the Whelen and 2,800fps for the NMag.
; I'd go the Ackley Imp .35 Whelen and get an honest 2,650fps to 2,700fps with 250's, but would rather see a custom 300gr. at about 2,400fps.
; I don't think African rounds need to be above 2,500fps, nor do I think anything higher tht that is ever required. Yhis is a personal opinion, nothing more.
; The .35 Whelen Improved pretty much duplicates modern loads in the 9.3x62 - as the case capacities are almost identical. Take a .35 Whelen IMP and neck it up to take .366" bullets and you have a round generally ready for fireforming. Same goes for .375/06IMP, neck down to .366" and load and fireform. Of course, the larger the bore, the greater the expansion ratio, the slightly faster powders are used and generally higher velocties for the same weight bullets, but lower SD's of those bullets.
; The main reason for the straighter sided case, is easier extraction when pressures rise with heat. It also allows normal velocities at lower pressures, ie: 2,400fps with 300gr. bullets with perhaps 55,000psi - some 8,000psi below max. I don't know of any 300gr. RN's, but probably Woodleigh, or some other maker. I'd be happy with a 250gr. "TSX", I think.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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